"Our nation needs to hear this:
"If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land" (2 Chronicles 7:14)."
While I can understand what he is driving at by posting this verse, I have often had difficulty with posting scripture that equates the nation of Israel or the Jewish people with the United States or Christians in America. There is this assumption that God is in covenant with the United States and any parallels seen between our country and the biblical problems of the nation of Israel allow us to use scriptures out of context as if they apply equally. One of my personal struggles is to stay silent when I think I have something to say on a particular subject. With that said, I posted on this thread to throw my two cents into the fray knowing that I was probably going to catch opposition for it; which I did. Therefore, I wanted to share with you what I wrote and the ensuing "conversation" that occurred in hopes that it may have some value.
Me: "My people = The Jews, not Americans.
Our sins are already forgiven; 2 Corinthians 5:19-20; Hebrews 10:17-18
Our land is not being devoured by locust and it is raining. (2 Chronicles 7:13)
People need to come to faith in Jesus Christ and when things are terrible it can work to the benefit of the Kingdom as it leads to people coming to faith in Jesus. While I understand the intent of this passage, the context is not for Americans or the United States. All that is happening now is all a part of the End Times. Keep preaching the Gospel as it will only get worse."
Kim P: "You're trying to say that a crack head murderer is already forgiven? That the current baby murdering abortion industry is forgiven? Really? Because I read that repentance is necessary for forgiveness. Repentance being a turning away from sin. And by saying that "My people= The Jews" you are saying that WE don't belong to Him?"
Me: "Yes. The problem between man and God is not that we are sinners in need of forgiveness, but we are spiritually dead and in need of His resurrected life. Forgiven: "Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, NOT COUNTING their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:18-19)." Saved by His resurrected life: "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be SAVED BY HIS LIFE (Romans 5:10)." True repentance is turning from your unbelief in Jesus and accepting Him as Savior (i.e. Mark 1:15). Born again Christians belong to God, but 2 Chronicles 7:14 was not written to Christians. There were none at the time. It was written to disobedient Jews. Thank you."
Lyndon W: "Repentance is turning from unbelief in Jesus ?? Ummm....no."
Me: "Ummm....Yes. “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:15"
Gary F: "See Ken Ham's post.... ALL SCRIPTURE"
(Ken Ham's post: "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2 Tim 3:16")
Me: "Yes, 2 Chronicles 7:14 is God-breathed. It is useful for teaching us how to take scripture in context by showing us that it was written to Jews under the Law not American Christians. And by understanding the proper context it can be used to rebuke those who use it for a purpose it was not intended. Thus, it corrects us so that we can be in agreement about what the verse means. Therefore, it trains us on how to correctly handle God's Word as those who are in a right-standing with God through our faith in Jesus Christ. Grace and Peace."
Robert F: "My people = Christians"
(I didn't respond to this because I addressed it in my initial post.)
Robert F: "Only past confessed sins are forgiven. This verse is just one of many that says we must repent to receive forgiveness. We must stay in a submissive relationship with God and NOT return to a life of willfully sinning. Without repentance there is no forgiveness of sin (Acts 2:38, Acts 17:30)."
Me: "Sorry, Robert, all our sins are forgiven; 2 Corinthians 5:19, Ephesians 1:7, Ephesians 4:32, Hebrews 10:17-18, Romans 4:8, Colossians 3:13... And without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness; Hebrews 9:22. Confession simply means agreeing with God. We must agree that we have sinned, but also agree that He is not counting our sins against us so we can boldly approach the throne of grace in our time of need; Hebrews 4:16. God bless."
This is where the thread has ended. I do not enjoy this type of exchange with random people, especially Christians, on the internet. I feel it can serve a purpose by showing different views of scriptures and also serve as a teachable moment for all involved as to how to give a reason for why we believe as we do, to keep us humble and teachable as well as provide an opportunity to get practice sharing our faith. Thanks for reading.
"If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land" (2 Chronicles 7:14)."
While I can understand what he is driving at by posting this verse, I have often had difficulty with posting scripture that equates the nation of Israel or the Jewish people with the United States or Christians in America. There is this assumption that God is in covenant with the United States and any parallels seen between our country and the biblical problems of the nation of Israel allow us to use scriptures out of context as if they apply equally. One of my personal struggles is to stay silent when I think I have something to say on a particular subject. With that said, I posted on this thread to throw my two cents into the fray knowing that I was probably going to catch opposition for it; which I did. Therefore, I wanted to share with you what I wrote and the ensuing "conversation" that occurred in hopes that it may have some value.
Me: "My people = The Jews, not Americans.
Our sins are already forgiven; 2 Corinthians 5:19-20; Hebrews 10:17-18
Our land is not being devoured by locust and it is raining. (2 Chronicles 7:13)
People need to come to faith in Jesus Christ and when things are terrible it can work to the benefit of the Kingdom as it leads to people coming to faith in Jesus. While I understand the intent of this passage, the context is not for Americans or the United States. All that is happening now is all a part of the End Times. Keep preaching the Gospel as it will only get worse."
Kim P: "You're trying to say that a crack head murderer is already forgiven? That the current baby murdering abortion industry is forgiven? Really? Because I read that repentance is necessary for forgiveness. Repentance being a turning away from sin. And by saying that "My people= The Jews" you are saying that WE don't belong to Him?"
Me: "Yes. The problem between man and God is not that we are sinners in need of forgiveness, but we are spiritually dead and in need of His resurrected life. Forgiven: "Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, NOT COUNTING their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:18-19)." Saved by His resurrected life: "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be SAVED BY HIS LIFE (Romans 5:10)." True repentance is turning from your unbelief in Jesus and accepting Him as Savior (i.e. Mark 1:15). Born again Christians belong to God, but 2 Chronicles 7:14 was not written to Christians. There were none at the time. It was written to disobedient Jews. Thank you."
Lyndon W: "Repentance is turning from unbelief in Jesus ?? Ummm....no."
Me: "Ummm....Yes. “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:15"
Gary F: "See Ken Ham's post.... ALL SCRIPTURE"
(Ken Ham's post: "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2 Tim 3:16")
Me: "Yes, 2 Chronicles 7:14 is God-breathed. It is useful for teaching us how to take scripture in context by showing us that it was written to Jews under the Law not American Christians. And by understanding the proper context it can be used to rebuke those who use it for a purpose it was not intended. Thus, it corrects us so that we can be in agreement about what the verse means. Therefore, it trains us on how to correctly handle God's Word as those who are in a right-standing with God through our faith in Jesus Christ. Grace and Peace."
Robert F: "My people = Christians"
(I didn't respond to this because I addressed it in my initial post.)
Robert F: "Only past confessed sins are forgiven. This verse is just one of many that says we must repent to receive forgiveness. We must stay in a submissive relationship with God and NOT return to a life of willfully sinning. Without repentance there is no forgiveness of sin (Acts 2:38, Acts 17:30)."
Me: "Sorry, Robert, all our sins are forgiven; 2 Corinthians 5:19, Ephesians 1:7, Ephesians 4:32, Hebrews 10:17-18, Romans 4:8, Colossians 3:13... And without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness; Hebrews 9:22. Confession simply means agreeing with God. We must agree that we have sinned, but also agree that He is not counting our sins against us so we can boldly approach the throne of grace in our time of need; Hebrews 4:16. God bless."
This is where the thread has ended. I do not enjoy this type of exchange with random people, especially Christians, on the internet. I feel it can serve a purpose by showing different views of scriptures and also serve as a teachable moment for all involved as to how to give a reason for why we believe as we do, to keep us humble and teachable as well as provide an opportunity to get practice sharing our faith. Thanks for reading.
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